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02 juli 2005

Forum discussie over Software Factories

Op vrijdagmiddag om 13.45 in het Auditorium wordt een forum discussie gevoerd met de Microsoft Architecten over het hoe en waarom van Software Factories. Je kunt de mannen ook vragen stellen via de web site. Erg leuk, ik heb me al laten verleiden twee te stellen:

  • Hoe maak je dat een DSL generiek genoeg is dat het door requirements engineers nog voldoende ruimte voor functionele creativiteit biedt en specifiek genoeg dat het gaat leiden tot verbeterde productiviteit dmv code generatie

  • Hoe bewaak je in een Software Factory het requirements management? In een Team System team voelt iedereen de voordelen van het collaboreren, maar de requirements engineers komen daarbij niet expliciet voor en juist zij moeten (leren) collaboreren met de ontwikkelteams.


    • Ik ben erg benieuwd naar de reacties.

    posted by Archy at 12:11

    37 Comments:

    • DSL, Domain Specific Language. Kortom zoals de naam al aangeeft die hoeft niet generiek te zijn. Software dient onderhoudbaar te zijn. En in het DSL concept juist specifiek te zijn!

      Het generieke spul trek je juist uit een framework en/of genereer je template based.

      Die one size fits all mentaliteit is juist wat de productie van software te duur en complex maakt.

      Servant to all, master of none is een kostbaar idee, dat in feite niets opleverd.

      By Anonymous Anoniem, at 17:09  

    • De reactie komt wat naijlen op een blogentry van meer dan een jaar geleden. Maar goed, altijd blij met een uitnodiging om te reageren: ten eerste zijn we nu een jaar verder en weten we meer en beter hoe we VSTS moeten positioneren. We werken er tenslotte al weer bijna een jaar mee in productie. Het DSL-concept blijkt in de huidige productieomgeving niet zo'n prominente rol te spelen, en misschien komt dat ook wel door het ontbreken van een goede "competencebase". Met andere woorden, we weten wat DSL is en kan, maar het kost nog even tijd om het te vertalen naar commerciele waarde.
      Ten tweede zijn het interessante stellingen die 'Anonymous' poneert, maar die ook weer zo generiek zijn dat het weinig oplevert ;-) Even zonder gekheid, er staan 4 stellingen in de reactie; nummers 3 en 4 kloppen wel, maar ik denk dat we er niet onderuit kunnen komen, zolang we proberen het Object Oriented concept vast te houden bij het ontwikkelen. OO betekent tenslotte dat we iedere keer een 'wereld' (of domein) moeten specificeren. Stelling 2 is ok. Generieke spullen kun je goed in een framework kwijt, maar je moet dan tenminste een significante developmentbase hebben om het hebben en onderhouden van dat framework profitable te kunnen maken.
      Stelling 1 noopte mij deze snelle reactie te geven, want ik vind dat A. hier het Specific misplaatst. Een DSL moet specifiek zijn voor het domein waarvoor ie gemaakt is, maar hij moet wel zo generiek zijn dat je 'm kunt hergebruiken. Stel je voor dat je voor iedere applicatie een nieuwe DSL ontwikkeld die alleen voor die applicatie geldt. Kun je net zo goed gewoon gaan programmeren. De vragen die in mijn blog staan gingen er juist om het panel uit te nodigen aan te geven waar de juiste balans is tussen herbruikbaar, dus om de investering van het maken van de DSL vaker dan 1x te kunnen gebruiken en specifiek om de one-size-fits-all retoriek te pareren.

      By Blogger Archy, at 21:19  

    • Aaaaaaaaaaaahaa klein definitie verschilletje over het woord generiek dus.

      Natuurlijk is een DSL specifiek voor een probleem domein en dan is het ook wel handig als de DSL dan herbruikbaar is.

      Anders kom je inderdaad in de lullige positie, dat er bij iedere applicatie een nieuwe DSL uitgepoept moet worden. Kinda kill's the concept dead in its tracks.

      Maar in mijn onbescheiden opinie is de betekenis van 'generiek' domein overschrijdend, anders is het tenslotte domein specifiek.

      Stelling 1 kunnen we dan ook als misverstand beschouwen. Stelling 3 en 4 verschillen we niet van mening.

      Stelling 2? Dat framework heb je al en krijg je cadeau van Microsoft. Je kunt dan het echte generieke spul (errorhandling, logging, security ect...)centraliseren en declaratief in je sources hangen. Aspect orientatie zou daar een rol in kunnen spelen.

      Software factories staan nog in de kinderschoenen. En natuurlijk moet VSTS nog door ontwikkeld worden. Het is echter wel een signaal, waar het naar toe gaat.

      Dus volgens mij begrijpen we elkaar beter dan op het eerste gezicht blijkt.

      Ik was me even vergeten voor te stellen.
      m.v.g.
      Tony Kipperman

      By Anonymous Anoniem, at 14:20  

    • Lijkt er inderdaad op dat we niet zoveel verschillen van mening. Tony, je kent m'n email vast nog wel ...

      By Blogger Archy, at 21:57  

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